4BP. Turn Decision

    • 4BP. Turn Decision

      Hello guys,

      have another hand that i wanted to share with you :)

      Playing regular 50NL 6-max on microgaming, anonymous. HERO is CO with A :club: A :spade: , 110BBs effective.

      UT folds
      MP folds
      CO HERO raises to 2.5BB
      BU raises to 8.5BB
      SB folds
      BB folds
      CO HERO raises to 22BB
      BU calls.

      FLOP (45.5BB) : 8 :diamond: J :club: 6 :diamond: . CO HERO bets 15BB, BU calls.
      TURN (75.5BB) : A :diamond: . CO HERO...???

      Linecheck???

      Pre - STD.
      Flop - STD.
      Turn - in a vacuum looks like a clear jam and move on, but wanted to explore this spot (the turn) a bit more as it doesn't look as clear for me :

      a) looking at my own range, there shouldn't be many hands that would bet flop and jam for value on this particular turn, other than a unlikely SC 4bet bluff combo in diamonds, but all my flop overpairs or even turned TPs (kinda weird to bet AK on such flop texture, even as a range bet) are not entirely clear jams, so i actually see myself checking most of my range on the turn???
      b) with having most of possible TPs blocked i'm not sure if i actually have a value-jam, not in a sense that i won't have 50% eq when called (villain should have worse sets, unlikely TPs etc), but i just expect him to fold most of his range vs jams...

      So given all that, is the turn still a clear jam or is turn check actually a line worth considering?

      Thank you for responses! :)
    • Heavily depends on his preflop range, like if he has mostly pp (you want to jam) or if he has mostly suited stuff (you want to check). Against a mix of both.. not super clear.

      Possible for him to turn some 99 or 8x into bluff as well when you check (as you look like QQ KK A4s), so if you think that's something he might do, a plus for checking.

      Overall worth solving with a few different button ranges I think.
    • lnternet wrote:

      Overall worth solving with a few different button ranges I think.
      Will do that, but want to ask for some ideas about input ranges - i will first start with my own range for BU, but it doesn't even have 8x hands (BUvCO c4b), though that would be closest to a 'mixture' IMO.

      However, i'm not too sure what other kinds of ranges is reasonable to give BU that would one - emphasise pockets, another - SCs - they should for the most part be 3bet only BUvCO ranges to begin with and then mostly call 4bets IP...? I should also probably be putting weights on combos for a more logical / spread out kind of ranges?

      Will be posting the results of the solve with my own ranges once i'm home :)

      Thank you!
    • Input ranges:

      CO HERO CO 4bet range [ AA-JJ,AKs,A9s,A5s-A2s,KTs,AKo,[50.0]AJo,KQo[/50.0] ]
      BU c4b range [ JJ-TT,AQs-AJs,KQs,76s,65s,54s,AQo ]

      Turn spot for CO HERO - mostly checking (On the flop BU folds nothing just AQs/o with no FD potential) :

      Turn Spot for BU if CO HERO jams - jamming AA doesn't seem attractive for CO as it blocks most of BU's calling range, AA stacks JJ anyway, while it gets it in bad vs BUs flushes :

      Vs CO HEROs check BU plays interestingly(?) and checks back the entire range ?( :

      Looking forward to your thoughts about the solve and if i made any obvious mistakes. Also, how would you suggest i shift BUs range in any way for additional solves?

      Thank you! :)
    • c4b range looks a bit off imo. I would expect more suited Broadways to call, doesn't has to be 100%. Also those lower Pockets 66-99 are called with some frequency and imo there is too much weight on those low suited connectors. You could also add some AA which are called sometimes. Even though I think AK and QQ are mostly a jam for BU I think they are called sometimes.
      Also I think you should give BU the option to bet small, on the Turn.
    • Adjusted the BU c4b range with weights for it to be more spread out (don't think i have very much wiggle room as i still want to keep the range around similar total %) :

      [JJ-TT,AQs-AJs,[80.0]KQs[/80.0],[50.0]ATs,KJs,QJs,76s,65s,54s,AQo[/50.0],[25.0]99-66,KTs,QTs,JTs[/25.0],[10.0]AA[/10.0],[5.00]KK-QQ,AKs,AKo[/5.00] ]

      Flop betting frequency way lower for CO now, just 50%


      BU mostly calls the flop still, folding just the worst no (BD)FD combos.


      On that turn card now CO checks most of the range, while BU doesn't ever go for a jam, but stabs liberally for a small size, once given the option to.


      Vs the turn stab from BU, CO actually folds a bit of QQ-KK and Ax.


      Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts! :)
    • New

      Range for CO [ QQ-66,AQs-AJs,KQs,[50.0]ATs,KJs,QJs[/50.0],[25.0]KTs,QTs,JTs,AQo[/25.0],[10.0]AA[/10.0],[5.00]KK,AKs,AKo[/5.00] ]- full combos of KQs/AJs/AQs and 66-QQ with a little sprinkle of other suited broadways and AQo and a micro dose of KK+/AK.

      Flop:

      CO cbets for 1/3 size just 42%



      BU continues with most of it's range:



      On turn A :diamond: CO checks most of it's range (86%) mixed with some rare jamming:



      Vs turn check from CO, BU stabs liberally, doing it 50% of the time for small, 1/4 pot sizeL



      Thank you for feedback, as always! :)