4BP. Flop decision

    • 4BP. Flop decision

      Hello guys,

      have another hand that i wanted to share with you :)

      Playing regular 100NL 6-max on microgaming, 5-handed, anonymous. HERO is SB with J :diamond: J :heart: , 100BBs effective.

      MP raises to 3BB
      CO folds
      BU folds
      SB HERO raises to 9.5BB
      BB folds
      MP raises to 23BB
      SB HERO calls.

      FLOP (47BB) : 9 :spade: 6 :heart: 5 :spade: . SB HERO checks, MP bets 17BB, SB HERO...???


      X/f, x/c, x/j...??? X/folding the flop looks really bad, x/calling also doesn't look appealing, so maybe x/j for protection, try just to win the pot, which is already big, right there without showdown...?

      Thank you for responses! :)
    • chitz wrote:

      I think you can't really hit better flops, except Set or Overpair+SD. If you aren't ready to x/jam here, then you should question your pre call?
      Well, inserted the x/f option without a good reason, i won't be folding the flop ever, so it shouldn't really be there. Anyway, i'm rather interested in x/c vs x/j lines, i really don't mind a x/j here with JJ, but does then it mean that we play our entire range as x/j or x/f here?

      chitz wrote:

      Also just checked my pre ranges, which suggest mixing raising and folding, though sizes aren't the same, but close enough I guess.
      3betting vs open folding OR 5BJ vs 3b/folding? :D No flatting?
    • sry, if I was unclear I mean: fold vs 4b or 5b jam. Ofc we are always 3betting.
      actually my pre solver doesn't really like flatting, only like 8% but I inserted a 10bb 3b and 23bb 4b. Also there could be a problem with accuracy, so take that information with a grain of salt :D

      I prefer x/j vs x/c since JJ needs protection, there are alot of bad runouts. If you think that villain mostly has QQ+ and AK then folding pre is best, otherwise I think denying Equity against KQ, AQ, AK, Axs with a jam is good and easy to play.
    • lnternet wrote:

      Jam is good, call is ok too.

      I mean what do you want to know exactly :D
      Ehmm.... The crowd here clearly prefers a x/jam over x/c :D

      In all seriousness, in 4bet pots it seems that there's a lot of x/jamming OOP / jamming over the small cbet if IP [ON THE FLOP] going on - like the recent KK in 4BP pot hand that you have commented on here in forum - you said that FDs are mostly x/jamming the flop and so i was wondering is there some kind of rule of thumb for such spots too wether to x/c or to x/j flop?

      I pretty much agree with arguments to x/j for different kinds of hands, that would want to continue BECAUSE THE POT IS SO BIG ALREADY since it's 4bet pot:

      1) for those vulnerable overpairs (or TPTK stuff like ATs on T 6 3r) to get any folds and not face overcards that the 'bluffing' hands could hit;
      2) for flushdraws to either get folds and win the whole pot without reaching showdown or to GII right there on the flop with still somewhat reasonable equity (like 35-40%) vs the calling range instead of just calling the flop bet and face a jam on the turn which would kill the whole equity as it won't be able to continue then..

      In both cases it's not really value jam, but protection factor is much more important because of the pot size...?

      So my question is again, are there clear situations where you would prefer one line over another and also are there different hands that you would prefer to play in x/c or x/j line?

      Thank you! :)