SRP. Facing 1.5PSB Jam With Rivered 2NF

    • SRP. Facing 1.5PSB Jam With Rivered 2NF

      Hello guys,

      have another hand that i wanted to share with you :)

      Playing regular 50NL 6-max on microgaming. HERO is CO with K :club: 9 :club: , 100BBs effective. BB - regular / unknown.

      UT folds
      MP folds
      CO HERO raises to 2.5BB
      BU folds
      SB folds
      BB calls.

      FLOP (5.5BB) : T :club: 5 :spade: Q :spade: . BB checks, CO HERO bets 2BB, BB raises to 10BB, CO HERO calls.
      TURN (25.5BB) : Q :club: . BB bets 13.5BB, CO HERO calls.
      RIVER (52BB) : 6 :club: . BB bets 74BB and is all in, HERO...???

      Linecheck??? This feels so value-heavy, all the possible turned houses from 55 to Q5s and all the QT combos... Naked Qx looks like a better BC than K high flush in theory, but in general probably should fold everything that's not a house myself, though in that case even 55 is the same bluffcatcher still and should also consider folding...?

      Thank you for responses! :)
    • KJs will probably 3bet pre most of the time, while the two remaining combo-draw combos J9s J8s are possible to x/r flop and barrel turn, but even on turn it's equity drops significantly, especially on a board pair, that will already put their equity to 0% vs some hands, but particularly on the river they end up being some of the worst candidates to bluff with as they block a significant amount of COs drawing hands that could call flop and turn bets, but would fold the river. Also, even if they decide to bluff, IMO sizing turn smaller, but then 1.5 potting the river is just ludicrous, so i'd say most likely not....
    • Call me a nit, but I think we do have such an insane amount of better hands we can defend vs flop xr, that we could consider starting to b/f with hands like K9, even with the BDFD. However, we did call the flop so we need a plan. I guess villain can have worse for value, hands like 54cc, J5cc; bluffs like KJo certainly in the mix, maybe some 5x, some busted frontdoor flush... Yeah, guess I am never ever folding here. Just way to strong of a hand.
      We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.
    • rigged31 wrote:

      Make Sense better Bluff is If He is turning Ace ten Kt jt ten 9 into a Bluff
      Hmm... I would say that it's unlikely - a hand as strong as AT, KT and such IMO should be able to just calldown 3 barrels on this runout as BB. It should certainly have way more than 50% equity on the flop vs COs betting range, so it wouldn't make much sense to be turning it into a bluff already. Also if KT n such is played as a bluff then a question is what would BB even calldown three barrels with.

      sleepwalker87 wrote:

      Call me a nit, but I think we do have such an insane amount of better hands we can defend vs flop xr, that we could consider starting to b/f with hands like K9, even with the BDFD
      Good observation. I though about it rather in terms of do we have enough realized equity, given pot odds when facing a x/r (pot odds - 31.3%) and if so we should continue (not really sure about it though, especially once we're facing a x/raising range), but just looking at our own betting range, Kc9c is way down there with roughly 40% equity vs BBs range on the flop and is lower in equity than stuff like KsJx... So yeah, probably can just be folded i guess.

      sleepwalker87 wrote:

      I guess villain can have worse for value, hands like 54cc, J5cc; bluffs like KJo certainly in the mix, maybe some 5x, some busted frontdoor flush... Yeah, guess I am never ever folding here. Just way to strong of a hand.
      Can't comment, because the HERO folded river :D I was thinking about this a bit and i just don't really see bluffs actually played like that - flop x/r - whatever, turn barrel - again, whatever, but then 1.5x OVB... It's just risking so much, people just don't do that for no reason...? Haven't really encountered such lines most at all, but certainly haven't encountered many if any bluffs like this.

      One thing though i think is possible is weaker stuff for value, so worse BDFs that could maybe play such in this weird manner, however, just doesn't feel exploited to fold :D
    • I was gonna say he might have a worse flush or AcQx but he overbet jammed so that's out the window. Overbet is just 55; maybe QT/Q5 if he doesn't care he blocks everything, maybe nutflush. So yeah you have a bluffcatcher. Generally river overbet all-in into an uncapped range is heavily underbluffed, so I'd have no problem default explo folding here up to any stakes really.
    • lnternet wrote:

      Generally river overbet all-in into an uncapped range is heavily underbluffed, so I'd have no problem default explo folding here up to any stakes really
      Good point, HEROs (CO) range here is actually uncapped and that is what i would like to ask further about:

      lnternet wrote:

      Overbet is just 55; maybe QT/Q5 if he doesn't care he blocks everything, maybe nutflush
      a) River play holding 55 as CO - i was under the impression that even 55 facing a jam is just a bluffcatcher as it still loses to potential QT/Q5s, though because villain could maybe have nutflush as worse for value and maybe a combo of air once in a lifetime, so 55 should be crying call here on the river???
      b) Flop play with nutted hands as CO, so QQ/TT certainly and even 55, as BB doesn't have QQ and just maybe has a combo of TT (could absolutely 3bet BBvCO), so essentially 55 could still be held as nuts on the flop - once we face a x/r would we ever want to be putting in a 3bet if we know we have the best possible hand at this point? One smaller issue would be how to balance it out, but bigger one is the EV of 3betting the flop - if we think villain has air that we would blow out, we would rather just call the x/r, but i don't think that's the case, IMO villain should mostly have either made value hands, so QT and Q5s and 55 (no 55 possible if we hold 55) as well as draws with decent equity (openenders/gutshots/FDs/maybe some BDFs), so x/r would make sense, but then play on the turn street is what isn't so clear - on blank turns i would think jamming is the best play, but here on spades/A/K/J/9/8 flushes and straights do come in so we can't jam turn for value at this point... So the question remains, would you be 3betting the flop in theory or in practice and why?

      THANK YOU!!! :)
    • lnternet wrote:

      Spots where it's important to 3b IP is
      - very high equity for a lot of hands boards, like 227
      - very deep
      - vs fish for value, vs tight XR for value when you have the nuts
      The third point is pretty clear, but could you please explain the first two a bit further?

      Thank you!

      EDIT: on the same subject, would love to hear your thoughs on 3betting the flop OOP - what are the major differences, if there are any obvious ones? TY!!!

      The post was edited 1 time, last by motiejus ().