3BP Live NL 1000 Turn Spot

    • 3BP Live NL 1000 Turn Spot

      The game was just increased from 2/4 to 5/10. I generally prefer the lower game and most players know that.

      Villain is an aggressive regular, who tends to be a bit too wide. He is a thinking player though. He lost some bigger pots before, but I am not sure if / how this affects him.

      We are playing 2,7k effective.

      There is a straddle.

      UTG limps, Hero (UTG +1) :Ahh :Qhh raises to 90, CO calls, Villain (BB) raises to 400, only Hero calls.

      Flop :Add :Jss :7hh (920)

      BB bets 500, Hero calls.

      Turn :5ss (1920)

      BB checks, Hero ?


      Thanks in advance for your responses.
    • What do you mean "too wide"? Bluffheavy, or more linear?

      I think it is more the rule than an exception that liveplayers are affected by losing bigger pots.

      SPR-wise you have one option, shove or check imo.

      Is this hand good to shove? GTO-wise? Maybe close. With this informations? Safe shove.

      When to shove? I think on the turn you can easily check, maybe he is slowplaying his AK, maybe not, JJ, AJ, A5s are going to bet I think. Liveregs tend to autocbet KK QQ there. Just check and go for a shove on some Rivers, if he check again, after losing some pots, he maybe yolo-calling KK and weaker Ax and snapshoving spiked twopair/sets himself. I also think most Regs are more tempted to call on the river than on the turn because "liveplayer thinking" ---> "he shoves the turn he has the good ace, oh he checked the turn and shoves the river now, seems like KQ, or T9s, so yeah *think and staredown 5 minutes* ---> I call".

      Are there opinions about betting smaller on the turn? Or check turn and bet small on the river?
    • I suppose two things are quite important to know here :

      1) preflop range assumptions - You mention villain can show up with 56s here - is that right? Normally i would assume that people would be happy to see a flop with such hand from the BB, which, once raising, tends to be more on the value side, because with weaker hands it's tempting to just complete and close the action to be able to see the flop. Of course technically BB doesn't close the preflop street as there's a limp from UTG, but for the most part, i suppose the same thinking applies here ;

      2) Slowplay tendencies post-flop - is villain likely to blast away with all strong hands or would he put some of them in the passive lines as well, especially considering SPR? I suppose AA is always possible, but that's just 1 combo, much more important to know is what villain is most likely to do with AK, given how many combos are possible - as erotic one mentioned, i would agree that JJ should be betting turn almost always, while AJ and A5s probably is less likely given preflop (for AJ) and given post-flop play (for A5s - betting flop with TPNK, but then check turn once improved doesn't seem too consistent).

      Overall, i'm a bit skeptical that HERO's hand is strong enough to GII for value (not only HERO should be ahead of more than 50% of villain's continuing range, but villain would actually have to continue with worse often enough - can villain show up with bunch of weaker Ax hands and GII with them more than he could show up with AA/AK???), however i would think that villain is more likely pot-controling here than slowplaying and he does that with hands that should have some showdown value, but are not strong enough to bet itself.

      Vs such hands IMO two really small bets on turn and river to make sure those hands do continue would be best, targetting QQ-KK/Jx/AT(?) and since HERO does have AJ/JJ/77 in his range, villain can't really go crazy x/j as a bluff and even more so because he should be turning pairs into bluffs for the most part, which i wouldn't really expect. One thing to note though - maybe it's STD for live games, which i don't have exp with, but normally i wouldn't expect those QQ-KK/Jx type of hands to bet such flop
    • motiejus wrote:

      I suppose two things are quite important to know here :

      1) preflop range assumptions - You mention villain can show up with 56s here - is that right? Normally i would assume that people would be happy to see a flop with such hand from the BB, which, once raising, tends to be more on the value side, because with weaker hands it's tempting to just complete and close the action to be able to see the flop. Of course technically BB doesn't close the preflop street as there's a limp from UTG, but for the most part, i suppose the same thinking applies here ;
      I have seen him 3bet 43s CO / BB before. In general he is simply squeezing and 3betting too often to only be really strong. Obviously I don't get to see his hand all that often but his frequency is quite high.


      I am really not sure about the slow playing part. Haven't really seen him do that before, so I would expect him to bet 2pair+ more often than not. He definitely can show with AK I think.
    • loder89 wrote:

      I am really not sure about the slow playing part. Haven't really seen him do that before, so I would expect him to bet 2pair+ more often than not. He definitely can show with AK I think.
      In that case i really think that two small bets could work best here :

      1) i think it's clear that you won't be able to GII profitably, so to be getting called down for stacks by worse often enough ;

      2) you still want to maximize the amount you could make vs all possible weaker hands, so splitting it into really small bets, that weaker hands have to call would ensure the widest possible continuing range ;

      3) at the same time you want to risk as little as possible, even if we don't expect many x/jams, the fact that you can run into AK limits you in a way ;

      4) thinking about other possible options:

      4.1.) betting turn big - even if not all in, you would be commited to the pot and villain probably would mostly give you action when you're behind ;

      4.2.) checking back turn to bluffcatch river - IDK, unless you know that villain would absolutely perceive you as weak (like thinking that you're uncomfortable at these stakes and stuff) and therefore go crazy (for example turning pairs into bluffs) it doesn't feel attractive - if villain bets big (up to all in) that's just GL spot, while even though with a small bet just on the river he could be v-beting worse possibly, on one hand i don't really see bluffs played like that, while vs worse that's thin valuebetting, you could probably make even more by betting both turn and river small yourself ;

      4.3.) checking back turn to bet river if villain checks again - to bet it small, again, feels like it could be missing another tiny bet on the turn, while if you bet big (up to all in) i'm not sure if you still would be getting called enough by worse - on one hand, sure villain can talk himself into stuff, but in reality - are you really EVER bluffing here, considering this game is big for you etc., not to mention that it's actually hard to assign bluffs for you - in case villain holds QQ/KK he blocks possible gutshots, not to mention your range should be really narrow from preflop, putting 15% of your stack.