Pinned How to get out of the micros – 3 tips and recommendations

    • How to get out of the micros – 3 tips and recommendations

      [Original >Post< from @onese7en - translated by sleeper1979]

      Hi,

      since @mistbaer and a lot of other people are doing a great job building and expanding the beginner section, and not only the content for crushers, I would also like to say some words and help players who are new to the game or struggle for a long time.Why me? Well, I was a breakeven grinder myself for a very very long time. Winning a bit from time to time I quickly became euphoric to leave the micros behind. But more often I was asking myself if I can beat nl5 at all.

      Since I’m here at PokerMarket I’m steadily moving forward! Therefore, this thread is also a little thank you for the valuable and honest input I’ve received. Straight answers, honest help and no trolling or making fun of me.

      I thought about the crucial points I’ve changed in the last months, which made It possible to finally leave the micros behind and grinding quite successful the low stakes now. :)


      1.) The Right Content

      I was someone who always had a lot of fun looking for new content and coaching-videos and consumed anything I could find. Unfortunately, that doesn’t get me anywhere, quite the opposite, in fact – I was confused about all that different input and couldn’t “filter” the really important things out of it. Furthermore, I was consuming content from a lot of different limits. Sure, there are timeless concepts or things you can use at any stake, but there is also a lot stuff you shouldn’t try to use at the micro-stakes and which can do more harm than good. An experienced player can get the right things out of it, but my advice for beginner is:

      Choose your content carefully! Only consume content made for your limits! Keep working on your game, but don’t overflow your brain with too much information. Improve only one part of your game at a time (ex. 3bet pots) and if you feel safe in this part, start working on the next one.

      Content recommendation: "Le Zoom Voyage" from @eroticjesus (you can find it here), high quality content (theory and live play) at a really fair price![/i]


      2.) Table selection

      In the early days of Zoom I was really happy. No endless waiting for good tables, no table selection. Just sit down and start playing right away. But let’s be honest, the Zoom tables are the toughest tables in today’s poker world. The skill level is, compared to other games, really high and times are over where you can find 3 weak players at almost any table. There is no good reason to sit down with 5 good regulars or to play Zoom with >90% regulars. And please don’t make the mistake to overestimate yourself, which I did for a long time. Sure, most regulars have a lot of leaks, but so do you. And to think you have an edge over any other player is just wishful thinking! The money always comes from the weak (recreational) players. No recreational player = no money!!

      Of course there are winning players on Zoom too and it can make sense to play these games. For example, if you play nl50+ with a high volume or if you like to play a quick 30-minute session or just to have some fun. But if you want to get better, if you want to make some money and if you finally want to leave the micros behind, you shouldn’t play at Pokerstars and use one of the better alternatives!

      My recommendation: Play regular tables (no fast fold) and tableselect hard! Leave the tables if there is no recreational player and keep looking for some of the smaller and softer sites. You can also mix 2 or 3 sites if you need more traffic. You can find some tips for some sites at the end of my post ;)


      3.) Rakeback

      One point I always underestimated before @lnternet and Co has opened my eyes with this posts.

      internet wrote:

      It's the most important thing in being a winning player up to and including NL100

      You pay copious amounts of rake at low limits. It's normal for a good player to win nothing pre-rakeback, but then you get maybe half of his10bb/100hands rake back for a solid winrate.

      That's exactly how it was for me:



      One of the most important steps to leave the micros was the transfer from Pokerstars to Microgaming. There are two reasons for that - softer competition and really good rakeback from PokerMarket, even for low volume players (30% Rakeback + 20% First Deposit Bonus + 5% in Tokens and some % for high volume players through a rake race).

      AFAIK Pokerstars has the lowest rake on NL10 with 8bb/100. If you reach the “Goldstar” level (more isn’t really possible with a normal volume at this limit) you get 20% back which makes it 6.4bb/100 effective.
      On Microgaming you pay 10bb/100. But through the rakeback deal you get 55% back which makes it 4.5bb/100 effective!! This is almost 2bb/100 more.
      So, a Stars breakeven grinder is a 2bb/100 winner on Microgaming. And additionally, because you have a way softer competition, your winrate is probably higher too.

      The first 20k or 30k hands of my graph I’ve played on a different site, after that I startet grinding Microgaming and suddenly I was beating the games with a 5bb/100 winrate + 5bb/100 through my Pokermarket rakeback deal.

      As if this wasn’t enough, Microgaming recently decreased the rake tremendously. The new rake cap on NL4 (the max amount the pokersite takes from the pot) is now 88% lower than before and even on NL10 they lowered the rake about 70%. Microgaming realized that most played can’t move up in stakes, if they get eaten by the rake:

      Alex Scott - Head of Poker at Microgaming wrote:

      Scott states that “rake can have a major impact on players’ win rates,”


      My recommendation:

      Open an account through PokerMarket at Betsson, Betsafe or Triobet with 55%+ Rakeback (30% Flat RB + 20% First Deposit + 5% Tokens, for high volume players even more through the rake race or other promos). If Microgaming wasn't already the best choice for all Micro- and Lowstakes players before they decreased the rake, they are now for sure!




      I always had enough tables on NL20, but if you still need more, you can always add another site. But you should rather take another small site with soft games and good rakeback, before you end up on Pokerstars again!

      Good luck at the tables! :)
    • First thanks to @sleeper1979 for translating my post. My english skills are not that good, so he did the translation for me :)

      underdog27 wrote:

      Thanks, very usefull post. What do u think about 888 and Eurobet? What are the other soft sites with good volume? AFAIK Microgaming has nice RB but not as much recrenational players, rather some semi-recs not spewing to much?
      888 is very soft, but has an extremely high rake and nearly no rakeback (9% on gold status iirc!?), so I would not play on 888 on limits below NL100.
      Can't say anything about Eurobet... It seems to be an italian site (first link on google is eurobet.it)!?

      Microgaming has recreational players, but most of them play the anonymous tables. For the normal tables, i think, your're right, that there are mostly regs (but not many good regs, compared to Stars) playing. Just try the anonymous tables! :)

      In general, table selection is so, so, so important - doesn't matter, on which site you play! But don't underestimate the rake and rakeback! On some sites you need to win 2-4bb/100 MORE than on Microgaming to have the same results - just because of the lower rake PLUS better rakeback on Microgaming. If you find a site, with such a soft playerpool, that your winrate increases easily 2-4bb/100, please write me a message :thumbsup:

      underdog27 wrote:

      And what videos do u reccomend and what materials in general to learn beating micros?
      Tough to say... I really like the german video series "Le Zoom Voyage" by @eroticjesus, because, he does not just say "do this and do this, and if you are in that spot, just do this". Instead he shows, how you can improve your game on your own. He does not give you a range and says "That's your BB vs. BU callingrange now", but explains the (mathematical) concept, with which you can contruct your own ranges.
      I really like this approach, because many player just copy ranges and lines, which they saw in videos, but don't understand it. I'm sorry, that I can't give you a link, but try to find such videos, try to understand the concepts and then try to do as much work as possible on your own. In my opinion, that's the best way to improve!
    • Thanks guys for the answers. I am probably going to open some acc tru @Pokermarket. But these two things are contradictory: If i play on anonymus @Microgaming then there is no tableselecting? Right? :D

      I am a winerr on PokerStars nl2 6max zoom like above 10bb/100 on a large sample. What do u think how could i manage to do on toher sites, cause i didnt play anywhere except stars?
    • underdog27 wrote:

      Thanks guys for the answers. I am probably going to open some acc tru @Pokermarket. But these two things are contradictory: If i play on anonymus @Microgaming then there is no tableselecting? Right? :D
      On Microgaming you can only tableselect by stacksizes, on normal tables AND on anonymous tables. But in my opinion that's enough to find good tables! :)

      underdog27 wrote:

      I am a winerr on PokerStars nl2 6max zoom like above 10bb/100 on a large sample. What do u think how could i manage to do on toher sites, cause i didnt play anywhere except stars?
      Tough to say... I don't think, anyone can do such a prediction. But 10bb/100 is a pretty good winrate! :)
    • onese7en wrote:

      888 is very soft, but has an extremely high rake and nearly no rakeback (9% on gold status iirc!?), so I would not play on 888 on limits below NL100.
      Agreed! And to reach gold status you have to rake $750, which is a lot depending on the limit you play. The first deposit bonus is worth 20% and combined with rakeback you get around 24%-29%. But on other sites you start with 50%+ and a similar soft player pool.
    • asilenta wrote:

      hi i think the micros are bad because it ruins your game due to the variance and the loose players, even at medium level its the same, $150 + for a tournament buy in is enough to get rid of the loose fish and will make for a better game. :thumbsup:
      if you cant beat microstakes then there is no point in moving up, you'll just get toasted there
      "Spiele nl100/200/500 Zoom agressives Konzept"
    • Hey guys,

      we just wanted you to give all newbies a short update!

      Pokerstars has almost completely removed rakeback from their system. When this thread and it's startpost was opened Pokerstars used to give max. 30% rakeback and they have cut it down to around 5%. Therefore Pokerstars isnt a good choice for beginners at all and you guys should have a look at the high rakeback sites of Microgaming or PartyPoker.
    • PokerMarket Rep wrote:

      Hey guys,

      we just wanted you to give all newbies a short update!

      Pokerstars has almost completely removed rakeback from their system. When this thread and it's startpost was opened Pokerstars used to give max. 30% rakeback and they have cut it down to around 5%. Therefore Pokerstars isnt a good choice for beginners at all and you guys should have a look at the high rakeback sites of Microgaming or PartyPoker.
      but is lowrake/rb + no handhistories better than no rb + handhistories for a beginner?
    • boba10367 wrote:

      PokerMarket Rep wrote:

      Hey guys,

      we just wanted you to give all newbies a short update!

      Pokerstars has almost completely removed rakeback from their system. When this thread and it's startpost was opened Pokerstars used to give max. 30% rakeback and they have cut it down to around 5%. Therefore Pokerstars isnt a good choice for beginners at all and you guys should have a look at the high rakeback sites of Microgaming or PartyPoker.
      but is lowrake/rb + no handhistories better than no rb + handhistories for a beginner?
      PartyPoker has both, HH and good rakeback :)
      "Spiele nl100/200/500 Zoom agressives Konzept"